Martial Arts Advanced techniques, Do they exist?




My thoughts on advanced techniques in budo, koryu Martial Arts. Learn sword Join my endeavors on PATREON …

16 thoughts on “Martial Arts Advanced techniques, Do they exist?

  1. dosdadio siapa says:

    I think that in everything there is a beginning which is the basic of something, and advancement which is more than just the beginning because it is additional to the basic form.

  2. Knuckle Puppy says:

    I certainly do believe every school/style I martial arts has certain moves and techniques, but to say "I know advanced arts and can teach them" should come with several grains of salt. He might. He/we should also know that he only speaks of the art he learned, from whomever would consider him proficient. Bad marketing ploy there.

  3. Mark Myers says:

    when you first walk in as a beginner…EVERYTHING is an "advanced" technique. You learn the basics… and if you think on what you are doing… at least with me… I start seeing something else to do, that would hinder at least, or maybe disarm or disable your opponent. That said, if you tried using them during practice and training, you might end up being called "a bad student". I don't know what a sensei would do as I have never gotten that far.
    I enjoyed the Shintokai Battado videos about his accident and your comments and vids. Idk why he would try out that move without doing it slow first. Its like a different car. gotta get used to it first.

    I just subscribed. keep up the good info.

  4. Bill Lancaster says:

    Thanks for the video Steven, thought provoking as usual.
    I must have been very lucky with my teachers. The idea of advanced techniques that aren't taught until you reach a certain rank, spent x amount of time training or paid the requisite fee were unthinkable.
    Saito Morihiro Shihan was my sensei's only teacher. He taught a logical progression of techniques that built on what was previously learnt. No secrets, no wait until Shodan/Sandan etc., nothing withheld from students. Just deep knowledge and amazing skills on display and shared with everyone.

  5. fmn2628 says:

    Respectfully disagree.
    IN MJER we have three Noto, shoden, chuden and okuden.
    Anyone crazy enough to start practicing them out of order for a few years a piece will surely stab themselves. In this case there is a gradual transition to develop the basic skill, then move to an intermediate level, and finally to the advanced form.
    And interestingly enough the most important Kata in the style (kihon) are all shoden waza.
    I have noticed in some of my own students, if you pass to many kata to them too fast they will look all like crap, and the advancement of the student may be greatly delayed, and fixing all their problems may be a near to impossible task. They will develop hard to break habits.
    Teach in a proper order, the basics, when these are properly dominated, move to intermediate, and finally to advanced. After this repeat indefinitely. Students should not be passed kata they are not ready for.
    Nothing more awesome than to watch my Sensei perform the basic Mae (1st shoden waza), he does it in such a way, I know its going to take me more than 20 years to do it in that manner. Every training session I teach I start with Mae.
    I will say against my own argument there are a couple of waza that seem to me classified as basic, yet they have all the skill elements of advanced kata (like ukenagashi as Shoden)

  6. Cliff Judge says:

    The problem with an advanced technique is that its hard to pull off. If it were simple and effective, then hiding it would be pointless because you are betting the other schools wouldn't be able to figure it out. And what happens when some other school has your advanced technique as one of their beginner techniques, and their beginner students are all better than your mid-level guys at doing your inner technique?

    No, they'd have to be difficult to pull off. That makes them impractical for use. So they wouldn't actually be a technique that a warrior would rely on if he needed to use it….they wouldn't be techniques for the battlefield.

    But what if they were techniques that were meant to open the student's mind to some new way of using his skills? Kind of like an inspiration. Well if that's what you want your advanced techniques to be, then they don't necessarily have to be effective in and of themselves. Come to think of it, they don't have to be advanced, at least not technically.

    So where I go with this is that "advanced techniques," when you see them in the wild, are advanced not because of technical aspects, but because they are reserved for students who have trained awhile and absorbed the ryuha's teachings and approach. Their purpose is to bring the student up a step, or something like that. They aren't hidden because the public would be able to defeat the ryuha if they saw it, they are hidden because making them public would dilute their value to the students they are designed to help. That might actually still apply in 2017. Being able to watch something on youtube for years before you are taught it might cause you to form opinions as to what it is, before you are shown the proper way of doing it.

    My $.02.

  7. GTR Garage says:

    In Hakko-Ryu we have sets of techniques that were previously reserved for introduction at Kaiden/Shihan level, but everyone seems to practice them pretty early on at this point. It isn't anything amazing.

  8. Vasily Arzamastsev says:

    Hey Steven,
    I think today the only sense in "hiding" techniques is to follow the traditional curriculum.
    If we put everything on the table there is a massive possibility that we'll miss some crucial steps.
    For example in katas of Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto Ryu there is one technique that appears during all omote jutsus (Ken, Bo, Naginata), but we practice it only doing So-jutsu. Not because of it's secrecy, but to prepare your legs, arms, maai first, and when you are trained enough you can try to make it right with a skilled partner.
    Cheers

  9. Classical martial Arts Research Academy (CMARA) says:

    As someone who has read, seen, and at least gotten some idea of the purpose of many gokui, okuden, hiden, etc. The vast majority tend to simply be perspectives of distances, timings, or angles of attack that were codified. Quite often the student learns these things through the basics or intermediate levels, and then the gokui lesson involves "when you take and maintain this distance, we call that __," or "angling the body to protect the center-line is called __." (whereas the blank space is usually a word unique to a tradition or branch of traditions; shinmyoken, seichusen, honmi, etc.).

    But then there are traditions that teach their hojojutsu in their "advanced" levels, or perhaps certain weapons like a sleeve pistol or a certain kind of trowing blade.

    So I think one's definition of an "advanced" technique is important. Like you mentioned Steve, this was often a matter of life or death for the teacher; as such not letting the students know that you carry a small pistol under your kimono, and that's something that would only be taught to a potential successor, certainly makes sense.

  10. Georgios Kafentzis says:

    To be honest I do find difficulty understanding what a "technique" is sometimes in the traditional martial arts of Japan. Is it a set of movements? Are concept and principles techniques? Are kata techniques? It is very unclear to me what a technique entails.

    I do believe there are advanced "techniques". And my definition would be that advanced techniques are techniques which REQUIRE you to know and understand the basics/less advanced things beforehand. Some concepts and principles are harder to understand and execute than others without knowledge about previous things, making them more advanced.

  11. Gudkarma says:

    Just my thoughts from the other week when advanced techniques came up. Let me know what you think. please hit the thumbs up or down depending on how you feel. Be well, happy and peaceful everyone.

  12. Big Thunder Johnson says:

    Today all I can see "hidden techniques" as are either money generators
    or the willful act of keeping someone in the dark. There are some that I
    think require more explanation but that goes with anything that someone
    is starting new. I am not going to lie I purchased an "advanced" DVD
    some time ago, they are by no means complicated but they are numerous
    and a tad more complicated in some ways, but considering what the first
    collection showed they were far more in depth when it came to actual
    form. On a cultural level I can see not telling everyone everything,
    that is the way mine is. We do not simply share things that are
    important or meaningful to us, it takes sometime to get that level of
    trust.

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