Longsword and Messer terminology

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More messer context. Despite some technical difficulties (bloody camera -_-), I think this should interest those who want to know a bit more of the ‘why’ of …

9 thoughts on “Longsword and Messer terminology

  1. dlackovic13 says:

    This is really cool stuff. I've been working through Jess Finley's translation of Jobs Von Württemberg's Messer lately and I love seeing how the etymology of the art comes together from different sources. Please keep doing these kinds of videos; they're awesome!

  2. Winnipeg Knightly Arts says:

    Seems bang on with my experience. I think there's another aspect other than just product differentiation between the longsword system. I think it may be that he wanted to make a distinction in naming convention to make it easier to distinguish Messer fencing from Longsword fencing, so if someone is familiar with both, they can know that Stier is talking about Messer fencing without having to say something like "Messer Pflug". It may have been an effort to build a culture around organized fencing with Langesmesser in a more structured way, very much like Liechtenauer did for fencing with longsword.

  3. Jessica Finley says:

    Love this, Oscar! Bogen could also refer to a kind of noose trap, where a branch is "bowed" over and in springing up ensnares the animal (though the fiddlebow 1.33 connection is hard to ignore.) More eber and Stier thoughts to come.

    Im excited to hear more about your book!!!!!!

  4. Jo Adams says:

    I like the idea that Leckuchner alters his terminology to suit an urban audience, and of course not all the changes were necessarily done for the same reason. Another possibility, I do think that some terms (Eber being a good example) aren't necessarily changes from the longsword terms, but are alternative or older terms from the oral traditions that were codified by Ringeck et al. I think it's likely that there were more variations to the so-called Liechtenauer tradition than what's been preserved and passed down to us, and Leckuchner is (in part) referring to these alternative forms.
    Also, excellent demonstration of hunting the prey animal at the end.

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