Elite Gun Fighter vs Elite Knife Fighter | Ep3 | The 21ft Rule Does Not Apply! |

The 21ft rule states that in close quarters combat a knife is more effective than a gun. That a knife wielding attacker needs only to enter a 21ft radial distance to …

46 thoughts on “Elite Gun Fighter vs Elite Knife Fighter | Ep3 | The 21ft Rule Does Not Apply! |

  1. Wu Wei says:

    Doug Marcaida is a reputable source. Even if shot is center mass, it won't stop the attacker completely. (Assuming it's not in a vital area).

    Also, I've seen Doug and other FMA/Kali guys move, I've trained with some other sources as well…

    Back engage shot, that hipfire is relevant ONLY from the side he's drawing from and is assuming the target is attacking linear and isn't circling.

    Both the side roll and the dead leaf marcaida seems to favor the agenda of the firearm crowd. An attacker wouldn't lunge at him as if he had a 8lb spear…he would continue engaging him to the ground. Say he did manage to successfully fire a shot, at that range it is most likely a torso shot and wouldn't instantaneously neutralize the attacker. He would still have to fight him off until he bled out, went into shock or died.

    Lastly, most officers aren't marksman. They can hardly afford ammunition to train with their firearms regularly let alone keep up in their roadwork/tumbling skills. It isn't required for law enforcement to recert for their combative. I would be surprised if some of them can run a mile under a 7 mins.

    Bottom line, the 21 ft rule applies…the only point I see it doesn't, is if you're special forces team member, a skilled marksman, or martial artist. Even then, you're not guaranteed anything. Have fun with your concealed guys, it's only less favorable for you.

  2. Hardrock says:

    I don't want to rehash what I said in the first video commentary. But it does come off as obvious, the gunman in a controlled environment seems to be having difficulty drawing the handgun and just as much difficulty putting the handgun back into the holster. This is an action he should be able to accomplish with precision in the dark or blindfolded, with gloves or without, even with wet hands, as it could be raining. And that roll to the side but toward the knife attacker without yet having the firearm out is more likely to result in being hit by the knife. And somebody said it in the first video, too much noise created by the knife attacker, in the streets you probably would not hear him, especially if he is a trained combatant.

  3. Thors Hammer says:

    Doug is coming at me with a knife in his right hand,i step to my right fast twist and shout holding my gun lowe.I use his momentum against him.I dont roll around like that in a narrow alley and hitting a wall or whatever and risking losing my gun.Always apply the K.I.S.S. rules, Murphys law, and know you enemy and enviroment ,then adapt and overcome.

  4. David Farber says:

    There is another good video which I will try to find that shows that lateral movement is the best way to survive a knife attack. The average person with a gun will freeze and get stabbed before he can react. A person with a knife is my worst fear to defend against. Good series guys keep em coming.

  5. Xc0ngh05t says:

    I know this video is old and it is awesome to watch these two together. Only thing I would make a comment on is at 2:12 when Instructor Zero falls back and smacks the back of his hand on the mat. With gloves or kit this might not be an issue but if on concrete with bare hands (most concealed carry situations) it would be a good idea to do arms out turn palms down. If you have ever smack the back of your hands on a hard surface from a fall like that you will never want to do it again. Can also impair hand mobility from the impact. BJJ and Judo I was always taught palms down. Just my two cents for what its worth:). awesome video series!!

  6. Joe Vazquez says:

    The falling on the back and kicking with the legs to buy a second or two to get your gun out is actually a pretty clever thing. So is diving and rolling out of the way while drawing. Pretty cool I never would have thought. I always thought if a guy pulls a knife you're screwed lol

  7. bigtw09 says:

    Do scenario as if a female in a store parking lot being approached by a attacker with a weapon, because most attacks are not going to occur until they are right up on you! Most perps are not going to prey on the strong, they prey on the weak who are not expecting an attack to occur!!

  8. Justin L says:

    the gun dude anticipated the attack and prepared to roll in advance. Any self-defense that you know the attack is coming is useless because you only prepare for one scenario. In reality, there are billion of possibilities for example, could he have rolled in a tight room full of furnitures?

  9. Rob Abbott says:

    Although I never anticipate being in a situation where I'm facing a guy with a knife, you never know. This video series opened up a new perspective on how to increase time from "the 21 foot rule". I'm 66 years old and it is doubtful that I would have the reflexes to draw my IWB weapon and defend myself within 1.5 seconds. I'm going to need to dodge and duck first!

  10. Cleo Torris says:

    Only in a military or policing scenario would you get the luxury of 21 or even 7 feet. The 'fall on the back' technique looks really effective! Especially in a close quarters situation. Realistically, most situations are with in a half step so… using two hands to clear cover and remove gun is not an option. I would like for you to explore techniques using visual ques to give an edge and then block-draw combinations. Also these demos are always done in an obstacle free open room. that is never the case. Throw in some standing dummies and a chair and desk (Padded). Think… How to use obstacles to your advantage. Gives you time to draw your weapon.

  11. Williy From Philly Rev. of Truth says:

    Mr. Zemner. the goal in that exercise was to see if he could touch him with a blade in that scenario (21 ft rule)… that's all.. and what is the quickest way from one point to another? that's right Mr Zemner a str8 line. which was why Doug took the opportunity to go in that way. ..

  12. Frankly Sharp says:

    This is also a good example of a gun fighter who is gun focused. His response is "go for my gun, go for my gun, go for my gun." I'm not saying it's good or bad, but there are other options, maybe better, maybe not.
    And I would like to see what happens of the knife guy pursues and attacks with relentless murderous intent. Chases the gun guy if he changes direction, crashes him if he goes to ground.
    Good stuff, great videos.

  13. Hunter Bates says:

    how about the use of the Karambit against the fire arm? since you have the element of control what if this would be like in a situation for the military men going in a enemy base and just like zero would do, what would you have to do?

  14. Vincent Blalock says:

    Truly awesome stuff. And it's true but yes you do have to train and the training is out there. I've seen lots of average Joe's and others in all shapes sizes and health conditions with or without past training or life experience. Lots of shooter's are able to get out there pistol and even fire at a attacker simulation. They even had the advantages of knowing the attack is coming. A few can even place rounds on target. Not many can say one or five rounds would have disabled the attacker. Never have seen a good tight shot group and probably never will. I'm sure that I've not the skills for it and never have. Not ever knowing when or where it will happen. Point is the training is out their that is proper and effective and takes thousands of hrs of dedicated hands on experience. Still the attack is an ambush. The very nature is to catch you off guard. I would not as a bad guy pick a person who looks like their in shape. Aware of their soundings and passable packing. I'm a dB whose picking on the people who seems weak. I may have previously had training. Bad guys usually are experienced badguys doing bad guys stuff as a regular job lol. And remember a bad guy is not even a criminal until their caught and convicted. Even the dumbest Crack head picks a victim. And stopping a crackhead with a typical pocket rocket that most people comfort themselves with is well? Anyway train well. Train with the correct people who are trying to save you not impress you. Learn the correct stuff right off the bat because it's hard to break bad habits. Be open minded. Wake up in the morning and thank our Father for a wonderful day. And truly believe that the persons who try to bring us or our loved ones harm this day simply woke up dead already. They just didn't know. Attitude is everything in life.

  15. CoolbreezeFromSteam says:

    Don't mean this to disrespect either of the 2 guys in the vid but the way Doug is going at Zero with the knife is completely stupid. It's like an overweight slow minded guy with no sense of direction except forward.

    Their is more than enough time to react to someone moving left or right and make adjustmants in most scenarios. If he begins to shift his weight and roll to the left, I see that from the very start, and it isn't hard to move in that directly and even catch him in the back with the knife when he was in mid role. I think Doug was just letting Zero demonstrate his thing but if I were you, I would not follow the rolling advice as it would probably get you killed (especially since its more time to take out and aim the gun, that is if your not dead already)

  16. James Vergara says:

    Thank you for showing this informative video. I get sick and tired of people thinking a knife can be stopped by using a gun. You prove that there is a lot of dynamics involved in attacking your opponent with a knife. It seems you have to do more training using a gun due to the level of safety since the gun trigger can be pressed accidentally.

  17. AverageJoe says:

    Glock 19, cold steel spike (they're cheap and effective), SOG Dark Energy flashlight, and an extra magazine. That is my carry kit, all concealed, and I have one firearm, one blade, one impact illumination tool, and the magazine can be used as an impact weapon as well. Why limit your options, redundancy should be taught as well. Give yourself options, then train with them.

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