50 thoughts on “After Market Parts on Self Defense Guns

  1. John Wachtmann says:

    In a court of law, the most important thing for a person to do in any self defense situation is be able to articulate the "why" in a legally defensible manner. Billy threw out a phase that is straight from legal code. If the best you can say for why you have a modified trigger is "its cool" or "I like the way it shoots" that might not cut it. Instead, be able to express how modifications result in a greater ability to protect you and those around you, including bystanders.

  2. Metalpanzerwolf says:

    I have always felt that it was the situation that merited the justification of the shooting and never really worried much if I was carrying a modified weapon. I have never in my years seen any case other than hearsay that had the shooter get convicted due to a modification, and I have CC'd with due diligence for 24 years. I love how you break some of the old school forms of thought and take on some of the ugly training scars some of us older fellas have taken on throughout the years. Thanks Billy.

  3. ricfly52 says:

    I have a pistol that has a 8 pound pull. I have trained with it a lot. People chide me on the hard pull. But I have trained with it. I feel safe with it in a apendix or cross over carry. I have even stuffed it in my right pocket of my jeans in a weird situation. I feel safe with this hand gun, and I can hit with it. My 1911 has a 3 lb pull, I can see me killing the wrong people or even shooting myself, because of my training with the 8 lb. pull gun. What ever you carry, you need to train with it to get the muscle memory. Then let the lame attorneys go for ya.

  4. ArmaRes says:

    I mod my firearms to what works best for me. Anything I take to a class or use in pratice is what I'm comfortable with. Trigger weight is subjective. It can depend on the action type, the gun itself, hand size, male or female, age, and so on. If my range gun is a G17 with a 3.5lb trigger…my G26 is also going to be a 3.5lb trigger. Because I'm most practiced with it and I shoot it better then I did with a stock trigger.

  5. Robnord1 says:

    Excellent discussion here.  Maybe some who train and just repeat the "never modify a carry gun in any way"  phrase just because " it's always been taught that way" will have their thinking expanded a little.

  6. Wayne Oliver says:

    My stepfather was a criminal defense attorney and he said that he had a client end up in prison for 20 years after an "imperfect self defense shooting". He stated that one of the key factors in the decision was the "ugliness of the Mossberg shotgun". He believed it was the Mossberg 500 Road Blocker edition, and said that the muzzle attachment of the gun was all the jury would focus on. Factory gun too. It wasn't necessarily the cleanest shoot, but even the jury did not expect the judge to sentence the defendant for 20 years.

  7. K893 893 says:

    Not sure if this is too off the subject, but I fell like this situation contributed to some caliber/modification/bullet type paranoia. The man in Oregon, I believe, who shot a homeless person on a trail in the woods who attacked him was charged with murder, and I'm not sure that it was because he carried a 10mm, but the prosecutor did try to use it against him. The basis of the entire case did rest on the fact that because he chose such a powerful cartridge, he must have been waiting to kill someone and kill them really good. The defense had to justify the 10mm as a reasonable choice for the situations he may have to use it, and it was because he hiked in the woods and carried it in the city also which makes the 10mm ideal as choice. The rediculous nature of the case as dictated by the article I read, if correctly, probably perpetuates paranoid thinking in these situations.

  8. DEMONIC DEFENSE says:

    well i think there may be somthing to the smile and wait for the flash on your muzzle or like the cop thats being charged with murder they are making a big deal about him having a dust cover that says your fucked on it but just mods to improve function i dont think has much impact on anything

  9. Mockturtlesoup1 says:

    If you are legally justified in shooting someone, a trigger (or other) modification is very unlikely to make a material difference.Where it would (or at least could) make a difference, is putting a 2# trigger in your glock, and then getting into a situation where you unjustifiably pull a gun on someone who does not pose an immediate deadly threat to you or someone else, and accidentally shoot said someone because you were amped up with your finger on a hairpin trigger, as opposed to consciously making the decision to pull the trigger on a deadly threat.Now, there are other types of arguments for things like having certain antagonistic or violent images or sayings, or something like that displayed somehow on your gun, which to a jury(especially an inner city, anti gun, left leaning northeastern jury) could potentially appear as if you somehow WANTED a confrontation, or were looking for trouble, or seeking/looking forward to an opportunity to use your gun. For(a somewhat extreme) example, a KKK member that has an AR covered in confederate flags, KKK symbols, "death to (n-words)" engraved on his gun, etc. who ends up shooting a black guy(justifiably or not.) That could potentially be trouble, and strongly sway a jury's opinion. Though those kinds of cosmetic alterations are kind of a separate topic in my eyes.

  10. DUIShenanigans says:

    My question about the trigger thing is you referenced a scale between a 2lb and a 12lb. I'm not saying everywhere says this but I have noticed when shopping for triggers whether it's on OCTriggers.com or glock triggers.com midways a, brownells.com etc the companies set up their "defense or carry" triggers to a certain poundage. Most common that I have seen is 4.5lbs or some say 3.5(to light for me) completion is classified as 3.5 or less. Personally I run 4.5lbs, to me that isn't very light, but do you think that would screw me over in court? Trigger (shoe,and connector) is the only modifications I run in say my glocks. Personally I like a flat face trigger but not on that removes my "take up". I always keep my OEM parts, should swap them back in?

  11. cahillm2 says:

    Did you hear about the story out of Arizona regarding an LEO involved shooting with a "cosmetically inflammatory" modified rifle? I know it's not exactly what you're talking about, but in the same vein. I think those types of dust covers or Glock slide plate with Punisher skulls on them are kind of asking for trouble, like having a car with a huge wing on it, you're gonna get pulled over.

    http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/107996541-story

  12. ZBeard says:

    I think it's interesting the NY cops tend to have very heavy triggers in their duty guns – like with the Glock NY trigger spring that takes the pull up in the 12 pound range. They do this ostensibly to reduce the possibility of accidental discharges and make the weapons safer. Then they wind up in incidents like the Empire State building gunfight where nine innocent bystanders were hit – all by NYPD bullets. Makes me wonder how much those heavy triggers contributed to their poor accuracy, and if it did, does that constitute negligence on the part of the NYPD? Dunno, but it's something to think about.

  13. John in CA says:

    Hey Billy,
    Nice vid. Have you thought about putting a video together, talking about what you've seen in other countries (during your service) regarding limited personal freedoms. Then maybe relate how our government/CA is slowly taking our rights and freedoms away, there by leading us in that direction. It was an idea I thought about, and I'm not sure I articulated it as well in my description.
    Lastly. FPC is leading the fight out here in Ca., was hoping you could use your celebrity to give them some exposure.
    Thanks for what you've done, and what you're doing. We will see you down the road.

  14. ironhealzer says:

    Translation #PimpyoShit…. Better consistency in training leads to better performance across the board. AKA(quit being a b—- and train like you fight)…. Ahem…..Which could not just provide higher disipline and levels of Confidence of abilities it can also perhaps give the Lawabiding citizengun owner more time to perhaps think about Putting rounds down range in a Civilian Venue to begin with. #GonnagetsecondguessedanywaythatiswhatcourtsDo.#Justcauseyoucandoesn'tmeanyoushouldwhichiswhyyoubringbettertools

  15. sudilos117 says:

    Many idiots dont understand situations. Did your firearm ND killing your wife because you have a 2lb hair trigger that you did yourself with safeties removed and mishandling and lack of training or accidentally entering trigger guard?
    In that case you are fucked bud.

    Did that same gun defend your wifes life from 3 half naked drugged up rapists murders who just ate your neighbor and charged at you covered head to toe in blood with butcher knives raised high after kicking in your front door?
    Then you are probably good dude!

  16. Jim Assalone says:

    Finally, a reasonable response to modifications of carry guns. Personally I think taking a 6 1/2 to 7 lbs trigger down to 5 to 5 1/2 is reasonable. Anything lighter, especially these light for competition only triggers is taking a risk legal and actually using it in a self-defense scenerio. IMO

  17. Jessy James says:

    How about Ammo I think it's a big deal to. Like i have read around online. The R.I.P from G2 Research or Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion load or the Extreme Defender load or even the Hornady zombie Max. I've had this conversation with friends and I think the prosecutor can pin just the name Alone and it won't look good. Thank you sir for this excellent topics that a lot don't cover special for me az a concealing Patriot and Happy Memorial Day to you Sr and all of are Soldiers.

  18. tv92taylor says:

    Modifications are almost never going to make any difference in a criminal trial. There are elements to a crime that must be satisfied and the tool used isn't going to change whether or not you were justified in killing.

    Modifications can come into play in a civil trial, but really only to the extent that the jury finds negligence. If the killing was intentional, then you can't really be negligent for a modification. It could make a difference, but only in specific situations.

  19. M85FSLUVR says:

    I don't think there's any one thing in a trial (most trials anyway), that sways a jury. More like an accumulation of things that at some point become "overwhelming ". The guy in Florida (might be Texas, my memory isn't great), who came out of a gas station convenience store and wound up shooting into a car full of black teens because they played music too loudly- well, the prosecutor actually raised during the trial that this guy was "looking for trouble" because he carried his gun with a round in the chamber!!! Wtf?!?!? We don't know how much that affected the jury but they convicted him (he claimed he saw a weapon- the teens fled and when the police finally caught up to them, a search found nothing). Sure, the guy did all sorts of "wrong", but carrying condition 1 isn't one of them. All this to say, depending on the political climate of where you live, prosecutors and juries should not be counted on to be reasonable. IMO.

  20. M85FSLUVR says:

    Billy- just a suggestion, although I'm quite sure that you, in particular, are already preparing, but with the pending legislation, if there's a chance that existing rifles will be grandfathered before they essentially "ban" all AR's, that you purchase a dozen or so lower receivers. Even if I couldn't afford it, I'd sell something (optics or even a single firearm) to fund it. Good luck!!!!!!

  21. David Dale says:

    In my experience, most of this discussion evolved from how low can you go and still have a "safe" trigger. This was in the era where 45's were the competitive tool of choice in IPSC, IPSA,etc. In a light gun a lighter trigger means more shots on target….period.

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